202. Nora Bateson - Worldviews, possibilities, communication, readying, the unseen and change
Nora Bateson founder of Warm data labs and author of the book Combining came on the podcast for a warm, worldbending conversation. We speak of this world we live in and what it means to be involved in its unfolding through some of the concepts in Noras current book Combining. We speak of confusion, complexity, abouting, readying, shifting, communication, range, side by siding, the need for discontinuation, changing maps and how the territory always wins. This conversation has had me say "as Nora said" for weeks... perhaps you will to. Enjoy.
My summary:
What does the potatoes you make over Christmas have to do with complexity and shifting worldviews?
Nora Bateson on EP202 of the World of Wisdom 🎙️ Podcast. What is the one topic you'd expect when you get to sit down with one of the the people whose work has had the most influence on your thinking? Potatoes 🥔. No? Well that's (almost) where we started.
I've been obnoxious for weeks now. Nora said this, Nora said that. I guess that I have to surrender the right of interpretation. Now you can listen for yourself.
Some highlights? Sure:
📣 “The communication is not what was expressed or what was not expressed, it is what was possible to express. That’s where the limits move, in the combining.” This idea. What was possible to express. What happens when you lean into that as what you're doing, expanding what is possible to express?
🥔 Complexity theory isn't actually complex. What is it then? Well things like two adults arguing over which potatoes makes Christmas. Or two other adults arguing about when Christmas starts. That's complexity. As Nora says: "This is just culture playing out, it is history, habits and life memories and the depth of them."
🗺 Spoiler alert: The territory wins. For all of us focused on changing maps. Perhaps we do it because "the industrial and pre-industrial narratives" told us there was potency in that... When actually we all know: The territory always wins.
** BONUS ** 👁 "Be careful not to think you have to see [the shifts]." Because what we are able to see is mainly that which is familiar with.
And there was so much more. EP202 World of Wisdom 🎙️ Podcast on Spotify or wherever you listen to podcasts.
AI Generated Summary
Summary
In this conversation, Nora Bateson explores the topics of identity, reductionism, worldview shifts, and the practice of complexity. She emphasizes the importance of attending to the unseen and the combining of different experiences and perspectives. Bateson challenges the notion of simply replacing one worldview with another and highlights the significance of readying oneself for change. She encourages a focus on the wilderness of possibility and the exploration of nuance. Bateson also discusses the courage to speak simply and the need to transition from ideas to practice. She concludes by examining the levels of abstraction and the power of the territory over the map. In this conversation, Nora Bateson discusses the importance of different tones and complexity in communication. She emphasizes the need for side by siding, where different forms of communication come together to reveal nuance and generate new resonances. The exploration of logical types and metacommunication is also highlighted as essential for understanding and creating change. Bateson emphasizes the power of metaphor and the need to bring together multiple forms of communication to fully engage with others. She also discusses the importance of discontinuation and exploring the unseen. The conversation concludes with a reflection on the bookishness of life and the invitation to embrace the sensual and intimate aspects of existence.
Takeaways
Different tones and forms of communication can reveal new perspectives and generate new resonances.
Metacommunication, the communication beyond words, is crucial for understanding and creating change.
The power of metaphor lies in its ability to reveal the unseen and engage multiple aspects of being.
Embracing the sensual and intimate aspects of life is essential for a more holistic understanding of the world.
Chapters
00:00 Introduction and Connection
01:11 Questioning Identity
03:11 The Danger of Reductionism
05:06 Self-Portrait
10:30 Worldview Shift
11:49 The Complexity of Change
19:49 The Wilderness of Possibility
27:33 The Courage to Speak Simply
31:48 The Practice of Complexity
38:48 Ready for Change
42:12 Transitioning into Practice
49:27 The Seeds of Change
52:02 Levels of Abstraction
53:00 Different Tones and Complexity
55:06 Side by Siding and Logical Types
57:08 Meta Exploration of Communication
59:06 Importance of Metacommunication
01:00:01 Side by Siding and Combining
01:03:20 The Power of Metaphor
01:04:17 Bringing Multiple Forms of Communication Together
01:07:26 Communication Beyond Words
01:09:58 The Importance of Metacommunication
01:11:24 The Need for Discontinuation
01:12:53 The Exploration of the Unseen
01:13:07 The Bookishness of Life
01:14:42 Closing Thoughts